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Greg: I hope that you will not consider my emails as challenges.
Djs: Ah, but I do consider them as challenges. But do not let that deter you. There is nothing better to expand one’s mind than a good challenge.
Greg: I like very much your ideas and would like to explore more some of them like the idea you have that servitude to God is an impediment for man.
Djs: Looking forward to it.
Does not man perform a service for God by increasing His omnipotence, omniscience, and omnipresence?
Djs: Yes but there is a significant difference between ‘performing a service for…’ and ‘servitude to…’.
I would also suggest that that if you are in God then God is one’s very environment and as such how one grows God affects the very environment, God, to which one eventually returns.
Greg: Is not then man's very purpose to serve God in this way?
Djs: It is not a case of ‘serving’ God but rather a case of performing a service for… This may sound like mincing words but think of it this way: A parent performs a service for a child, mentors the child, protects a child, guides a child but the parent is no more in servitude than are you when you provide a service for God.
Greg: I don't know if I'm getting your attention by posting to your blog. So I'll try email. Here is my comment on your reply to my first question.
Daniel said:
Eastern philosophy basically rejects the concept the physical and thus the concept of ‘a physical universe’, physical existence, existing within consciousness is dismissed as not only impossible to prove but illogical and thus the rejection of panentheism.
Symbiotic panentheism recognizes three 1st truths existing simultaneously:
The Whole of Consciousness/non-discrete consciousness/God exists.
The physical universe exists
The individual/discrete entities of consciousness exist
Greg said:
Sorry to disagree but whereas Buddhism denies reality and also Advaita Vedanta calls differences in the what it calls the one real Whole or Brahman as Illusion, Ramanuja's Visistadvaita Vedanta does indeed recognize the same 1st truths that Symbiotic Panentheism does.
Cit = the individual soul or atman
Acit = matter or the universe, jagat
Isvara = the Whole, Brahman or God
These three entities and their relationship is what Vedanta is all about.
Djs: Interesting
Greg: Most westerners have heard only of Advaita Vedanta of Shankara which states that there is only one homogenious entity Brahman which is devoid of any qualities. These apparent 3 categories is brought about by adhyasa or the imposition of of ignorance or illusion on Brahman.
Djs: Actually symbiotic panentheism would agree with the above since sp demonstrates the Eastern concept stating: Universes are constantly being created and destroyed and the source material from which the universes are constructed is the void, is nothingness itself.
In addition, sp agrees with the theosophical concept regarding the level beyond consciousness being the ‘Unmanifestable’ or as you indirectly imply, ‘the imposition of ignorance or illusion on Brahman’.
Greg: However Ramanuja posits that the three are indeed real and related in a similar way as the soul is related to the physical mind and body. This is termed as Sarira-Sariri bhava (Sarira means body in Sanskrit).
Djs: The above gets complicated but sp also agrees with the above. If you felt the desire we can explore any of the above in detail.
Greg: Sometimes Ramanuja's philosophy is called Panentheism and some call it qualified non-dualism.
Djs: Again the above gets complicated but sp also agrees with the above and again if you felt the desire we can explore any of the above in detail.
Greg: It is a system of philosophy upon which he grafted Vaisnava religious traditions. However there are other forms of Visnu worship with other philosophical ideas. Madhva espouses theism known as dvaita or dualism which seems to have been influenced by Christianity and is the only Indian religious tradition to speak of eternal hell, etc.
Djs: Sp recognizes the concept of eternal hell but not as Western religions sees the concept where one ‘goes to hell’. Sp demonstrates how it is you create your own eternal hell.
Greg: And there are still other forms of Vedanta. Ramanuja is the only one who accepts the realtionship of these three reals as being analogous to the relationship between the body, mind and soul.
Djs: Very interesting information Greg. If you get a chance, tell me more.
By the way, I do consider all my e-mails as potential material for my blog unless the sender specifically labels it as ‘personal’. Is that OK with you?