Dialoguing - A Neo-Buddhist and a Symbiotic Panentheist
Clyde G. is a respected thinker and Neo-Buddhist who has been acknowledged for his ability to ask questions going to the heart of issues regarding metaphysical models of reality.
Our ability to affect ‘The Whole of Reality’ - Part II
[050531 cg] … It is the present that allows facts and ‘art’ to emerge; in fact, the present, as the “here-now”, allows everything that emerges to emerge, even consciousness.
[050603 djs] I would suggest it is not consciousness that emerges within the present but rather that it is the present that emerges within consciousness.
I would suggest that ‘the present’ is in consciousness and not in the physical.
‘And where is consciousness?’ then becomes the question.
I would suggest consciousness is ‘within’ the body and ‘outside‘ the universe (see diagram 050605) Thus, we as consciousness beings are made of the ‘same substance and essence’ as ‘the Whole’ (G-d if you wish). And thus we as discrete entities of consciousness short-circuit the age old philosophical paradox of ‘eternal recurrence’ or what one might term ‘permanent equilibrium’ which science has basically debunked as a concept.
‘The present’ is therefore understood to be ‘within’ you and ‘within’ total consciousness within which the physical itself resides.
Separating the present ‘within’ you from the ‘present’ outside you is the physical where the past and future lie.
[050528 cg] … but also the universe itself in this moment as information; i.e., this moment exists as it is because the preceding moment, in all its fullness, existed and this moment with its trace of all previous moments is the information that causes the next moment.
[050529 djs] This part of your last sentence is a surprisingly intriguing aspect of a complex sentence.
This aspect of your last sentence gives insight into ‘Reality’ for it implies three aspects ‘composing’ Reality, namely: the ‘previous moment’/past, the ‘next moment’/future, and what ‘is’/present.
In addition, the implications of your statement lead to an understanding of the structure of Reality through the understanding of ‘moments’.
Within the physical only the past and the future exist. The present does not exist in the physical since the present is of such ‘short duration’ it no more exists than does a point on a line exist.
[050530 cg] WOW! The present has no duration, but is the eternal now. ...
[050530 djs] WOW? What does WOW mean? WOW as in ‘Hmmm I never thought of that or WOW as in ‘That is really off the wall?’
[050531 cg] WOW as in “We start with the same ‘facts’ (the past, present, and future, and the universe, which we agree has a physical and mental aspect) and yet have a different, but perhaps not so different, understanding.”
[050603 djs] Agreed.
[050530 cg] ... I understand the physical as being objective reality and only existing in the present moment; the past and future existing only as thoughts (or images, etc.) in the mental. I understand the mental as being subjective reality and also existing in the present moment. Therefore, the present fully contains the past and future within itself.
[050530 djs] I agree completely, the question becomes: Where does one find the three, the present moment - the past and the future, in relationship of one to the other? The term 'where' refers to a visual model of Reality one builds to understand Reality.
[050531 cg] You do? …
[050603 djs] Actually, yes I do – see graphics, diagram 050605 sections ‘B’ and ‘C’.
[050531 cg continues] … Then there is no 'where' except for the present as the "here-now".
[050603 djs] The model of Reality described by symbiotic panentheism (see diagram 050605) embraces the concept that the physical may very well oscillate in and out of existence and therefore, the past and the future (tools available for consciousness to develop new experiences, new facts, new art, …) in essence come and go.
The Buddhistic concept of oscillating universes demonstrates that timeless existence can only be equated to the present – sections ‘B’ and ‘C’ in diagram 050605.
In addition, the physical alone contains space, distance, time, matter, energy, … but it is consciousness which contains the knowing of space, distance, time, matter, energy, …
[050530 cg] WOW! I understand consciousness as the present awareness of the physical and the mental. I understand the present as being the eternal now of the physical and mental, and of our consciousness. [050531 cg] You do? When you wrote, "The present would appear to lie 'within consciousness'", did you mean that you believe that the present exists within consciousness or did you mean that an impression of the present exists within consciousness? Or something else? … [050603 djs] Both and yes, something else.
[050529 djs] The question then becomes: Were does the present lie? The present would appear to lie 'within consciousness' and the totality of 'the present' would appear to lie within the totality of consciousness.
[050530 djs] I agree completely.