View Article  sp not a religion

 

Although symbiotic panentheism is an expanded model of reality and as such deals with religious issues, it is not 'a' religion since symbiotic panentheism is not based upon 'faith' but rather is based upon reason.

View Article  Dialogue with a Neo-Buddhist: The significance of averting 'eternal reccurrance'

 

Dialoguing - A Neo-Buddhist and a Symbiotic Panentheist

 

Clyde G. is a respected thinker and Neo-Buddhist who has been acknowledged for his ability to ask questions going to the heart of issues regarding metaphysical models of reality.

 

 

The significance of averting 'eternal reccurrance'

 

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[050531 cg] You ascribe 'purpose' to facts and to knowing.  I do not.  If, as you propose, facts exist for knowing and the purpose of knowing is to experience, then what is the purpose of experience? If you answer that the purpose of experience is to create new facts, then OK, but it is circular.

[050603 djs] The argument: 'The purpose of existing is to experience and create new facts' is only circular if one leaves the argument at this point. If, however, one then asks and answers the question: 'But what is the purpose of experiencing and creating new facts?' The answer to the question, then breaks the circular argument into being simply a question followed by an answer which in turn leads to an examination of human purpose, of human 'functionality', of the purpose for the existence of discrete entities of knowing as opposed to the 'whole' of knowing.

Having said that let me break the circular argument by asking the question and answering the question:

Question: 'But what is the purpose of experiencing and creating new facts?'

Answer (Potential rationale - one must always keep in mind that there is nothing one can 'know' as a fact. We can only define truths as best we can and move on from that point. Science itself is based upon this principle: Example: Tomorrow the sun will rise in the east and set in the west. Well perhaps but that would not be an absolute truth because the universe could collapse between now and tomorrow.)

If the whole of knowing is omniscient and timeless, then it would take no time for the whole of knowing to know all there is to know. As such the whole of knowing would have no choice but to recycle all its knowing again and again and again … Philosophers call this 'eternal recurrence'. Hollywood calls the 'Groundhog Day'.

To circumvent 'eternal recurrence', the whole of knowing has but to 'live' a 'new experience' or 'create' a 'new fact'.

The question: 'But what is the purpose of experiencing and creating new facts?'

The answer: To avoid 'eternal recurrence'.

Simple and rational.

 

 

[050608 cg] I'm not certain why you have this aversion to 'eternal recurrence'.  You see it as a 'problem' for G-d as you understand G-d or that G-d would be less perfect in your eyes.

[050609 djs] Actually I do not have this aversion to ‘eternal recurrence’, nor do I see this as a ‘problem’ for G-d, nor do I understand G-d to be less perfect if ‘this or that’ were or were not the case.

What I see instead is ‘man’ sitting around and pining for an understanding as to the meaning of his existence.

Now this pining is not a ‘negative’ aspect of humankind, rather the obsessing with meaning emerges from the natural curiosity of our specie and the natural desire of our specie to answer any questions which confront it.

The inability of our specie to answer the question regarding ‘meaning’ has led our specie down the relatively long historical path of intolerance, despair, and violence as well as down the relatively long historical path of brotherhood, hope, and peace.

In addition, the inability of our specie to answer the question regarding ‘meaning’ has also caused our specie to define philosophical, scientific, and religious paradoxes which have gone unanswered for centuries, which in turn have led us to several states of stagnation.

The first state of stagnation involves our intellectually understanding reality. This state of stagnation in turn has created a logjam of seemingly irresolvable intellectual philosophical, religious, and scientific paradoxes which impede our advancing not only these three arenas of study but impede the evolutionary development of our higher conscious.

The second state of stagnation involves the evolutionary development of our moral and ethical principles. This state of stagnation manifests itself in the phenomenal expanse being generated between our religious, social, legal, philosophical, moral and ethical issues and the technological advancements of our day.  We are presently doubling our knowledge base every seven years while our moral and ethical advancement remains virtually stagnant and this, in turn, is impeding the evolutionary development of our social structures.

I believe humanity is capable of reaching a metaphysical understanding of reality which would propel our moral and ethical abilities far ahead of our technological vector which in turn would resolve the problems generated by the first and second states of stagnation.

This advance in understanding reality would, in my opinion, harm no one and harm no religious institutions that are based upon centuries of human intellectual thought. It is my opinion that human intuitive thought has not been for naught nor has human intuitive thought been simply an anthropomorphic obsession. Although much of the ancient wisdom has been verbalizes in terms of ‘man’, the ancient wisdom is very enlightening when the term ‘man’ is replaced with the term ‘being’. Thus the ancient wisdom of mankind may appear anthropomorphic but is in fact very universal in nature.

As a side note: I believe the two states of stagnation previously identified, manifest themselves in the state of our present day music, art,  literature, politics, religious interactions, … The means of reinvigorating all aspects of society would thus appear to lie in advancing our understanding of reality.

In short, I see the key to reducing violence, intolerance, despair, social moral stagnation, social ethical stagnation, philosophical paradoxes, and scientific dilemmas, to lie in our advancing humanity’s understanding regarding the whole of reality and advancing humanity’s understanding regarding the role we as individuals and as a specie play within this advanced perception of reality.

‘But why now?’ then becomes the question.  The answer is: It has only been in the last half of the twentieth century that humanity has begun to grasp the full significance of our galaxy, other galaxies, the possible existence of other universes, our universe being possible limited in size, our universe expanding into ‘something’, the potential for our universe to collapse, the ‘primal atom’ from which the universe emerged, … It is because we have now begun to understand such concepts that we can begin to expand the perception we have regarding the whole of reality and the role we play within this expanded view of reality.

 


[050608 cg continues] … I have no particular feeling regarding 'eternal recurrence'.  It is not much in my thoughts.  As best I remember from my college reading, Nietzsche was the first Western philosopher to write about 'eternal recurrence'.  What I also remember is that, as I understood it, the point of 'eternal recurrence' is that one should live each moment to the fullest, as one will relive each moment eternally.  Whether 'eternal recurrence' is true or not, the point is well taken.

For me, G-d's omniscience means that all that is known is known within G-d, that there is no 'knowing' that is outside of G-d. 

[050609 djs] I agree, however, I also believe we are all in this together and as such have an obligation to look beyond our personal selves.

 

 

[050608 cg continues] … As the future does not exist, it cannot be known or unknown.  The headline on today's local newspaper is knowable and one may know or not know today's headline, but tomorrow's headline in not knowable nor unknowable.  (This is to be differentiated from our imaginings or projections about the future.  These imaginings and projections occur in the present and are knowable.)

Further, even if one states that "G-d knows all", that does not mean that G-d 'knows' as we know.  I believe it is an anthropomorphic mistake to think that G-d 'knows' as we know this and that.


[050609 djs] I agree, but I also ascribe to what I said above.

 

 

[050608 cg continues] … Finally, I have thought that if G-d is aware of all, then if one atom or even one electron of one atom in all the vast expanse of the universe were in a different position at a moment of time, then, for G-d, that universe would be entirely different experience.

[050609 djs] In terms of G-d, I agree. In terms of the individual, I agree. In terms of the mechanism itself, which regulates the interaction occurring between individuality and the whole, in terms of the dynamics of the internal functioning of reality and the meaning of morals and ethics which merge from such a mechanism, I do not agree.