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Thursday, March 24

Dialogue: Neo-Buddhist, Poly-Solipsist, and Symbiotic Panentheist: Duality versus Singularity
by
Daniel J. Shepard
on Thu 24 Mar 2005 11:39 PM EST
Dialoguing – Poly-Solipsist, Neo-Buddhist and Symbiotic Panentheist
Clyde G. is a respected thinker and Neo-Buddhist who has been acknowledged for his ability to ask questions going to the heart of issues regarding metaphysical models of reality.
ccKeiser is an original metaphysical thinker and is developing a concept known as ‘poly-solipsism’. For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to: www.poly-solipsism.com
[050321 cck] Dan, my dear friend, you are still thinking of god as you do the line. You see your God as The Line, and everything else as 'points' within The Line. In your analogy you can remove the points and still have The Line.
With The Singularity The Line does not exist in and of itself, there are only the points and together the points form The Line.
There is no Divine entity of "GOD" which is greater than all else, and it alone created and controls all else. "All else" together are god. "All else" together create god.
If you remove a point there is no line.
cck
[050324 djs] Regarding your comment: Dan, my dear friend, you are still thinking of god as you do the line. You see your God as The Line, and everything else as 'points' within The Line. In your analogy you can remove the points and still have The Line…
That is correct.
Regarding your comment: … With The Singularity The Line does not exist in and of itself, there are only the points and together the points form The Line…
Again, I understand your position.
Regarding your comment: … There is no Divine entity of "GOD" which is greater than all else, and it alone created and controls all else.
Again, I understand your position. Symbiotic panentheism dismantles the concept of hierarchical relationships. God is not ‘greater’ than any more than the individual is ‘greater’ than. Each has a part to play. Each is significant. Each is important to the other.
Regarding your comment: "All else" together are god. "All else" together create god. If you remove a point there is no line.
You can remove all the points you wish from a line and you have not diminished the line.
A line has no parts. A line is a non-discrete entity. A line is in essence the infinite potentiality of ‘point-ness’.
If a point were consciousness it would be a discrete individuated entity of knowing. If a line were consciousness it would be the non-discrete entity of the summation of all consciousness. Once the point of consciousness is identified, ‘becomes’, it cannot be destroyed any more than the concept of the point ‘two’ can be destroyed once it has been identified. Once you ‘become’ you can no more be destroyed than can any other form of consciousness be it a form of individuated discrete consciousness or The Whole of Consciousness. Non-duality, singularity exists but not as the one and only form of existence. Non-duality exists but not as the one and only form of existence.
Symbiotic panentheism does not deny The Singularity.
Symbiotic panentheism does not deny the multiplicity.
Symbiotic panentheism does not deny ‘nothingness’.
Symbiotic panentheism is a model, and as far as I know the only model, which not only acknowledges the existence of the non-Discrete, the discrete, and nothingness but does so while demonstrating the symbiotic relationship which exists between all three.
In short, symbiotic panentheism embraces and includes, while other systems reject and exclude.
Symbiotic panentheism has two fundamental premises:
Nothing is lost.
Everything has meaning.
[050319 cg] I agree that there is ONE G-d (another name for the Singularity) and ALL that is, is the substance and essence of the ONE G-d. The 'illusion' is OUR belief in the separateness of 'things'. The ONE G-d is and we call this 'the Universe', and this 'our mind', and this 'another', etc. And still there is only ONE G-d.
: [deleted materials]
[050319 cck] The problem mankind as failed to resolve is how can "Something" issue from "Nothing"? We cannot explain how the Discrete came into existence from a void of Nothingness.[050319 cck] Poly-Solipsism dispenses with the problem of both by recognizing there is no-thing discrete and there never was a void of Nothingness.
[050320 djs] Interesting. It appears to me that the two of you, cg and cck, have one thing in common, namely: You both appear to think G-d lacks duality, lacks the characteristic of 'discreteness'.
[050321 cg] Yes, I believe G-d transcends all duality.
[050324 djs] I understand that is what you believe but the question is not what do you believe but why do you believe it. Why is it you ‘believe’ G-d must ‘transcend’ duality as opposed to G-d embracing duality? Why do your reject G-d interacting with duality? Why do you reject duality being an aspect of G-d?
[050320 djs] It is here that I diverge from you both. Symbiotic panentheism is a model of the whole of Reality, a model of G-d, which demonstrates that G-d is both discrete in nature and simultaneously non-discrete in nature.
[050320 djs] Symbiotic panentheism embraces the attributes you both make regarding what is but disagrees with your adamant statements of what is not. In short: Where the two of you reject characteristics of G-d, symbiotic panentheism understands such characteristics exist and exist for a reason. For example, symbiotic panentheism specifically states: Nothingness exists and G-d uses nothingness. Individuated entities of knowing exist, are divine in nature, and interact in a symbiotic manner with G-d. Duality exists. The discrete exists.
[050321 cg] Then is it accurate to state that symbiotic panentheism is a dualistic philosophy; i.e., "a theory that considers reality to consist of two irreducible elements or modes" (courtesty of Merriam-Webster) and that the fundamental duality of symbiotic panentheism is an existent G-d and "nothingness"; i.e., non-existence? How does "non-existence" exist? And if there is G-d and non-existence, then is there is a Higher Reality than G-d that contains both G-d and non-existence?
[050324 djs] Regarding your comment: Then is it accurate to state that symbiotic panentheism is a dualistic philosophy; …
That is correct.
Regarding your comment: i.e., "a theory that considers reality to consist of two irreducible elements or modes" …
That is correct.
Regarding your comment: … and that the fundamental duality of symbiotic panentheism is an existent G-d and "nothingness"; i.e., non-existence? …
No, that aspect is not correct.
The fundamental duality of symbiotic panentheism is the existence of the non-discrete, G-d, and the existence of the discrete, individuated entities of knowing.
Regarding your comment: … How does "non-existence" exist? …
You are asking me to explain how G-d could possible ‘create’ non-existence. I cannot. I could speculate but I am not G-d. What I am stating is that G-d is all knowing and as such is all powerful and as such would not only have the ability to ‘create’ non-existence but would have the knowledge to do so. In short I am not limiting G-d to what it is ‘I believe’ G-d is capable of being, is capable of accomplishing, or is capable of knowing.
My work, www.panentheism.com, does examine the concept of nothingness in great detail but it never stipulates that the speculation it purports is absolute truth. Its intent is to begin the process of cultivating ‘out of the box’ thinking and examine the possibility that perhaps we are minimizing the capabilities of G-d or in short: Our G-d may be too small for our present day awareness.
Regarding your comment: … And if there is G-d and non-existence, then is there is a Higher Reality than G-d that contains both G-d and non-existence?
First of all: The G-d to which you and I refer contains ‘non-existence’ since non-existence cannot exist ‘outside’ G-d. We could discuss this concept but that would introduce an entirely different discussion. The discussion of nothingness being ‘outside’ G-d would, in essence, reduce G-d to being ‘lesser’ than nothingness and thus, by definition, nothingness would be G-d.
Second: In terms of the concept of there being a Higher Reality than G-d. Symbiotic panentheism would state that yes there is a Higher Reality than the G-d of which we can conceive and thus a Higher Reality than the G-d of which we speak. But the question then becomes: Why aren’t we discussing the Higher Reality? We are not discussing the Higher Reality because it is beyond our comprehension. Some philosophers, theists, and theosophers have speculated that the only way to discuss such a Higher Reality is through the process of ‘negation’ or what a metaphysicist might term ‘theoretical metaphysics’. For details see:
http://www.panentheism.com/Pages/begin01.html
[050321 cg] Regarding your statement that, "The discrete exists." Courtesy of Merriam-Webster, the word "discrete" means "constituting a separate entity" and "entity" means "independent, separate, or self-contained existence". There is only G-d (the Singularity), which is independent (uncaused), separate and self-contained existence (unbound and infinite).
[050324 djs] Regarding your comment: "discrete" means "constituting a separate entity"…
Yes
Regarding your comment: … and "entity" means "independent,
Courtesy of Merriam-Webster, the word ‘independent’ means ‘not dependent’, ‘not subject to control by others’, ‘self governing’ …
First of all the model is called ‘symbiotic’ panentheism not panentheism. The ‘symbiotic’ aspect acknowledges the interaction of each aspect of reality upon the other. There are three such aspects of reality. They could be referred to as ‘G-d / The Singularity’ / non-discrete being, ‘individuated entities of knowing / discrete beings’, and ‘nothingness / physical reality / the physical universe / the lack of the discrete and the lack of the non-discrete.
Regarding your comment: … or self-contained existence" …
Yes
Regarding your comment: … There is only G-d (the Singularity), which is independent (uncaused), separate and self-contained existence (unbound and infinite).
…
You acknowledge the concept of the uncaused and indestructible (non-discrete / G-d) but again you appear to shrug off the concept of there being ‘the caused and indestructible’ (discrete / individuated entities of knowing) and ‘the caused and destructible’ (not discrete and not non-discrete (excuse the double negative) / nothingness / the physical universe)
Why the limits? What is wrong with considering the boundless? What leads you to think the discrete individuated entity of knowing eventually simply ceases to be, a process which describes the loss of …?
Monday, March 21

Dialogue: Neo-Buddhist, Poly-Solipsist, and Symbiotic Panentheist: Limiting G-d
by
Daniel J. Shepard
on Mon 21 Mar 2005 12:05 AM EST
Dialoguing – Poly-Solipsist, Neo-Buddhist and Symbiotic Panentheist
Clyde G. is a respected thinker and Neo-Buddhist who has been acknowledged for his ability to ask questions going to the heart of issues regarding metaphysical models of reality.
ccKeiser is an original metaphysical thinker and is developing a concept known as ‘poly-solipsism’. For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to: www.poly-solipsism.com
[050319 cg] I agree that there is ONE G-d (another name for the Singularity) and ALL that is, is the substance and essence of the ONE G-d. The 'illusion' is OUR belief in the separateness of 'things'. The ONE G-d is and we call this 'the Universe', and this 'our mind', and this 'another', etc. And still there is only ONE G-d.
I agree that there is ONE G-d (the Singularity), but I do not ascribe the characteristic of consciousness to G-d. We, sentient beings, hold consciousness in high regard (and our egos as supremely important) and project that onto G-d. I am not arguing that G-d is material, nor am I arguing that G-d is not consciousness. I am stating that G-d is beyond the duality of materiality/consciousness, that G-d is the foundation of all 'things', both physical and mental.
[050319 cck] I am not sure I can agree with you that your One God is another name for what I call The Singularity. It all depends on how you define your god.
If you will agree that the only definition of god is "First Cause," without describing any other attributes, then your God and The Singularity are the same. But if you add attributes beyond Consciousness then you are leaving the confines of The Singularity and describing only the god that exists in your own mind. The god you have created for yourself to believe in. Any attributes assigned to your god, are the attributes you have assigned. And that is the problem.
You and Dan; and just about everyone else, argue over the attributes of god. You all disagree because you are each arguing about a different god. You and Dan are not talking about the same god. You each envision different attributes for the god you each have chosen to believe in. They are not the same god, each is the god you perceive in your own minds, and each of your gods only exists in your own minds.
There are no answers. There are only choices.
From Act II: page 3:
First Cause:
For us to know what Reality is, we must first know what The First Cause is, but because First Cause; whether you call it God or The Singularity, is both Infinite and Unbound it cannot ever be fully defined. An Unbound Infinity can be anything and everything at anytime, or at 'everytime.'
We cannot say what it is, and we cannot say what it is not, because it can always be more than what we say.
The only thing we can know about The First Cause is what it caused. Since no-thing can exist 'in' First Cause because everything is part of First Cause, any attributes we can assign to the components of any system, are by default, attributes of the system itself. A system cannot assign attributes to it's components that it does not manifest itself!
The only thing we know for certain is We Exist. We do not exist in First Cause, everything is woven from the essence of First Cause, and therefore any attributes we can assign to ourselves are by default also attributes of First Cause.
If we wield Occam's Razor on its sharpest edge by not complicating anything more than necessary, anything we try to append to We Exist is only a further complication and is not necessary. 'We Exist' is not only all we are certain of; it is all that is necessary to explain everything else. The only thing we know exists is the only thing that needs to exist. We are First Cause.
Reality and the Universe thus become an extension of our own attributes. And what are our attributes? The one attribute that defines us is the same attribute that grants us knowledge of our own existence: Consciousness: We Think.
With Poly-Solipsism there is no Duality because there are no "Physical Things." There is only the Consciousness of Mind.
The problem mankind as failed to resolve is how can "Something" issue from "Nothing"? We cannot explain how the Discrete came into existence from a void of Nothingness.
Poly-Solipsism dispenses with the problem of both by recognizing there is no-thing discrete and there never was a void of Nothingness.
[050320 djs] Interesting. It appears to me that the two of you, cg and cck, have one thing in common, namely: You both appear to think G-d lacks duality, lacks the characteristic of ‘discreteness’.
It is here that I diverge from you both. Symbiotic panentheism is a model of the whole of Reality, a model of G-d, which demonstrates that G-d is both discrete in nature and simultaneously non-discrete in nature.
Symbiotic panentheism embraces the attributes you both make regarding what is but disagrees with your adamant statements of what is not. In short: Where the two of you reject characteristics of G-d, symbiotic panentheism understands such characteristics exist and exist for a reason. For example, symbiotic panentheism specifically states: Nothingness exists and G-d uses nothingness. Individuated entities of knowing exist, are divine in nature, and interact in a symbiotic manner with G-d. Duality exists. The discrete exists.
In short, symbiotic panentheism would agree with the positive statements you both make as to G-d’s attributes but symbiotic panentheism would argue against the negative statements you both make as to G-d’s attributes.
It makes me think: Which understanding of G-d would most likely be correct, an understanding of G-d with limits defined by man or an understanding of G-d with no limits? Hmmm, perhaps the two of you can clarify for me how it is both of you are so sure the limits you place on G-d are in ‘fact’ an accurate description of G-d.
Regarding: If you will agree that the only definition of god is "First Cause.
I don't know about cg but symbiotic panentheism would not agree that the only definition of G-d is 'First Cause'.
Tuesday, March 15

Dialogue with a Poly-Solipsist: The 'I' is not the All
by
Daniel J. Shepard
on Tue 15 Mar 2005 02:43 PM EST
Dialoguing - A Poly-Solipsist and a Symbiotic Panentheist
ccKeiser is an original metaphysical thinker and is developing a concept known as ‘poly-solipsism’. For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to:
http://userweb.nni.com/keiser/42d.html
050302 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘All "Truths" are perceived truths.’ On the surface, this statement is correct but its implications are misleading.
In terms of the complete understanding of reality, there are ‘perceived truths’ that are in fact ‘truths’ and there are ‘perceived truths’ which are in fact not ‘truths’ but which are, instead, misinterpretations we make using either inaccurate observations, beliefs, and/or reasoning or using too much information which in turns clouds the issues or using too little information which in turn provides an incomplete picture of reality.
Regarding your comment: Even "I Exist" is a perceived truth.’ The truth ‘I exist’ is supported by an overwhelming assortment of scientific data, religious beliefs, and philosophical arguments which in turn makes it much more plausible that the statement is not just a ‘perceived truth’ but in fact represents ‘fundamental truths’ / ‘universal truths’ / ‘immutable truths’ / …
cck:
None the less "I Exist" is a perceived truth, and all truths are perceived truths. No matter how "overwhelming" they may ‘appear’, all "evidence;" whether it be scientific measurements, religious faith, or philosophical reasoning, must be perceived within the mind.
We cannot say that which we know no-thing about is true or not. If it is not perceive in some manner, we cannot judge it.
Once it is within the mind it will become as true as we judge it to be.
It will become the truth that we perceive, and therefore we will become blind to anything that does not support that truth.
[050302 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘None the less "I Exist" is a perceived truth, …’
I agree.
Regarding your comment: ‘… and all truths are perceived truths. …’
Again I agree, do not forget, however, that we also perceive non-truths and as with truths, non-truths are often perceived to be ‘truth’s’ and thus are false ‘perceived ‘truths’. Just because these non-truths are perceived to be truths does not make them ‘truths’.
Regarding your comment: ‘… No matter how "overwhelming" they may ‘appear’, all "evidence;" whether it be scientific measurements, religious faith, or philosophical reasoning, must be perceived within the mind. …’
I agree.
Regarding your comment: ‘… We cannot say that which we know no-thing about is true or not. If it is not perceive in some manner, we cannot judge it. …’
Again I agree.
Regarding your comment: ‘… Once it is within the mind it will become as true as we judge it to be. …’
Just because we ‘judge it to be true’ does not make it so. I may judge one to be ‘wrong’ but that does not make them ‘wrong’ in spite of the fact that it is ‘within’ my mind.
Regarding your comment: ‘… It will become the truth that we perceive, …’
I agree and disagree. Symbiotic panentheism also demonstrates that what we ‘perceive’ to be truth does not make it ‘immutable truth’, does not make it ‘universal truth’. Symbiotic panentheism demonstrates there is ‘truth’ which lies ‘outside’ ourselves, which is truth in spite of what we as individuals think. Symbiotic panentheism demonstrates there is consciousness beyond the discrete individual and thus ‘truth’ beyond the discrete individual. This is one arena where I ‘perceive’ we differ.
Regarding your comment: ’… and therefore we will become blind to anything that does not support that truth.’
I agree and disagree: Some will therefore become blind to anything that does not support that truth, however, there are others who are not only capable of ‘changing’ their fundamental understandings and there are also those who not only are capable of doing so but who do so.
Sunday, March 13

Dialogue with a Poly-Solipsist: Poly-solipsism
by
Daniel J. Shepard
on Sun 13 Mar 2005 12:10 AM EST
Dialoguing - A Poly-Solipsist and a Symbiotic Panentheist
ccKeiser is an original metaphysical thinker and is developing a concept known as ‘poly-solipsism’. For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to:
http://userweb.nni.com/keiser/42d.html
Part 3. The Soul and Symbiosis
1. Humankind exists.
2. Humankind exists in the universe, in "physical reality."
3. The essence of the individual is not the body nor the brain.
4. The essence of the individual is the soul.
cck:
What is the "soul"?
If the essence of the individual is the soul; an intangible ethereal entity, how can "Humankind" exist in Reality? If Reality is only what is perceived and therefore only exists in the Mind, and Humankind exists within that Reality, then Humankind also only exists in the MInd.
[050310 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘If the essence of the individual is the soul; an intangible ethereal entity, how can "Humankind" exist in Reality (physical reality)? …’
The question is one which biologists, psychiatrists, physicists, molecular chemists, … are all attempting to answer, namely: What is consciousness? How does awareness bridge the gap separating it from the physical (dualistic issues) or does consciousness even have a gap to bridge (monistic issues).
Monists fall into two groups: spiritualists and materialists. Regarding the monists: The spiritualists refuse to recognize the existence of the physical and the materialists refuse to recognize the existence of the spirit.
Dualists fall into one group. Dualists accept the overwhelming assortment of arguments which science, religion, and philosophy either indirectly or directly purport, namely: The physical / tangible exists and the spiritual / intangible exists.
As of this date, none of the three groups are able to answer basic questions regarding ‘How?’
The model of reality demonstrated by symbiotic panentheism supports the dualistic arguments. The more than four thousand pages of diagrams and rational arguments which support this position and which address the questions regarding how, what, when, where, and why can be found at www.panentheism.com.
[050310 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘ … If Reality is only what is perceived and therefore only exists in the Mind, and Humankind exists within that Reality, then Humankind also only exists in the MInd.’
The model of reality purported by symbiotic panentheism would agree with you since the model demonstrates: God is omnipresent (everywhere) and God is omniscient (a form of mind) and humankind is a limited form of knowing (a limited form of mind) thus humankind exists in the Mind, exists in God.
Symbiotic panentheism, however, also demonstrates the existence of the physical and the existence of humankind within the physical and the existence of the physical within God.
Soliloquy by cck:
The term "truth" means anything the mind of "I" believes to be true.
Yes the "we" is meant as "each of us individually", not "a consensus." BUT, in the shared Reality it is the mind of the consensus. We; each I, do not exist alone in The Singularity. If each I existed alone, there would be no meaning to existence.
The problem of Individuality in a One Consciousness Singularity:
Why are there individual minds or egos? How did a Singularity of One Consciousness evolve to be composed of the Many?
I gave this question considerable thought after I traced all of existence back to the First Container: The Singularity. If we start out with "A" Singularity, how did we acquire our individual egos? It gave me some pause until I realized I was attempting to conceptualize The Infinite and Unbound Singularity as a finite spacetime object. There is no correlation between The Singularity and anything that exists within our perceptions of Universe.
It was while contemplating its Unbound nature that lead me to finally comprehend the infinite degrees of freedom of The Singularity.
It was one of those "Duh!" moments when you realize the answer has been staring you right in the face all along. The Singularity was never "A" Singularity. It is not an Object, it has always been Infinite and "Unbound"!
The Singularity has always been a Multiplicity. We are the Infinite degrees of freedom of The Singularity.
To understand this a little better lets consider our spacetime Universe. We say we have height, depth, width, and time. We call them Dimensions but this is a misnomer. There is only one "Dimension;" the Universe, but it has four "degrees of freedom" to exist in. Actually, the last time I checked, the Theorist tell us our Universe has 11 degrees of freedom, but we are only aware of the four.
If they have not done so, I would add consciousness to the list of degrees of freedom of our Universe. We often overlook the very tool we use to study it with.
If we conjure up a mental image of our Universe we can start with a point and then expand that point to include all the degrees of freedom we can mentally envision. In this way we can ‘see’ our physical Universe is but one "dimension": the point we started with, but for our physical Universe to exist as we know it, we have to allow it the ‘degrees of freedom’ it requires.
When viewed this way it becomes apparent there is only one dimension of Universe, but it needs to have all its degrees of freedom for it to exist.
Remove any one of these degrees of freedom and the Universe would not exist at all, and if the Universe does not exist, none of the other degrees of freedom could exist. Our Universe is dependent on all of them entangling together to give our Reality the freedom it requires to exist.
It is the same for what we call our minds, our individuality. It is because of the way we view Consciousness that leads to our confusion. We only perceive the ‘dimension’ of consciousness we are aware of; our own. In trying to consider consciousness from the point of view of an Infinite and Unbound Singularity, we must remember The Singularity has no end, and therefore does not exists as an ‘is’ and is always in a state of Potential existence. Such a state would entail continual change in its own consciousness. Evolving, as it were, in an attempt to fulfill its own potential. But since it is an infinity with no end, it never can.
I believe to understand Consciousness we must do so from point of view of The Singularity, and not from inside the Universe, which can only give us a partial view, sort of the end results, and not the whole perspective, where we can only view it the same way we view any one of the spacetime ‘degrees of freedom’ when we call it ‘a dimension.’ It is not a separate entity existing by itself. It cannot exist in isolation just as Height cannot exist in isolation.
Without all other degrees of freedom entangled together, any single one in isolation has no meaning. We can perceive it separately, but it cannot exist separately.
Our minds and not separate entities existing isolated from all others. Just as Height cannot exist without all the other degrees of freedom, a single mind cannot exist without all other minds entangling to give the One Consciousness the Infinite degrees of freedom it requires to exist.
There is only One Consciousness, but with infinite degrees of Freedom. Our minds are the degrees of freedom of The One Consciousness. And each of our minds provides another, and different, degree of freedom to The Singularity.
It is only our own egotistical nature that presumes one intellect is superior to any other. All are of equal importance to The Singularity, and none would have any meaning without all the others.
That is why I say we are not ‘part’ of The Singularity, and we are no ‘in’ The Singularity. We are the Infinite degrees of freedom of The Singularity. We are the Consciousness of The Singularity, and The Singularity is our Consciousness.
We are The Singularity.
Cck
For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to: http://userweb.nni.com/keiser/42d.html
Friday, March 11

Dialogue with a Poly-Solipsist: Regarding basic premises of symbiotic panentheism
by
Daniel J. Shepard
on Fri 11 Mar 2005 12:51 AM EST
Dialoguing - A Poly-Solipsist and a Symbiotic Panentheist
ccKeiser is an original metaphysical thinker and is developing a concept known as ‘poly-solipsism’. For more information regarding ccKeiser and ‘poly-solipsism’ or to contact ccKeiser go to:
http://userweb.nni.com/keiser/42d.html
Part 2. God and Panentheism
1. Reality exists.
cck: How does it "Exist"? Define what exists means. It is how you comprehend the meaning of "exist" that leads you to your perceived "Truth."
Your perceived truth is the only truth you can know. We each erect our edifice to Truth founded solely on our own perceived truths.
For Reality to exist it first must be perceived. Without Perception there is no Reality.
If there is no Reality without perception then Reality can only exist in the MInd.
[050310 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘How does it (Reality) "Exist"? …’
There are two forms of reality: the form of reality which is intangible/abstractual in nature and the form of reality which is tangible/physical in nature.
Regarding your comment: ‘… Define what exists means.’
I am not using a personal definition of the term exist. I am using the term ‘exist’ in the generally accepted linguistic form as defined by Merriam Webster Collegiate Dictionary, tenth edition, 1993: exist vi 1a: to have real being either material or spiritual b. reality as presented in experience c. the totality of existent things d. sentient or living being 2a. the state or fact of having being esp. independent of human consciousness and as contrasted with non-existence b. the manner of being that is common to every mode of being … 3a. continued or repeated manifestation.
After all it is through common linguistics that we communicate
Regarding your comment: ‘It is how you comprehend the meaning of "exist" that leads you to your perceived "Truth."
It is not how ‘I comprehend the meaning of ‘exist’ but rather how ‘we’ comprehend the meaning of the term. If we do not use a common language to communicate we cannot clearly dialogue with each other.
Regarding your comment: ‘Your perceived truth is the only truth you can know. …’
Ah, the premise for validating the concept of ‘relative truth’. The model of reality described by symbiotic panentheism would dogmatically state: Relative truth like relative morality is a concept emerging from a lack of understanding the whole of reality, emerging from an outright rejection of scientific observation, religious faith, and philosophical reasoning which overwhelmingly embrace the concept: Not only does Reality exist but physical reality exists.
To reject the ‘consensus’ of the three is no less dogmatic than has been the stand of various religious organizations which base there ‘beliefs’ upon faith alone at the expense of science and philosophy.
In short, such a process, rejecting the ‘consensus’ of … establishes the counter process of seeking ‘truth’ since anyone can, therefore, legitimately state a premise, any premise, and from such a premise conclude their own personal ‘truths’ to be ‘truths’ irrespective of any logical arguments, observations, or historical vectors regarding ‘beliefs’.
In addition, the statement you espouse suggests there is no hope regarding the establishment of a common understanding of truth, a common understanding of purpose, a common understanding of the interaction of the tangible and the intangible.
Regarding your comment: ‘We each erect our edifice to Truth founded solely on our own perceived truths. …’
This is only the case for those that refuse to discuss truth in its purest form, for those who hold to the concept that there is no such ‘thing’ as ‘immutable truth / universal truth’
Regarding your comment: ‘For Reality to exist it first must be perceived. Without Perception there is no Reality.’
Perhaps, perhaps not, however that does not negate the possibility of one’s being capable of perceiving existences which themselves lack the ability to perceive e.g. nothingness.
Regarding your comment: ‘If there is no Reality without perception then Reality can only exist in the MInd.’
Perhaps, perhaps not. Since we are limited beings, it is possible there may exist ??? of which we, as individuated entities of knowing, will never be able to perceive. The only means we have of understanding such ??? is through the process of negation, knowing it is not of a passive or active form of which we can conceive.
2. The initiating force - causative factor - of physical reality is "God."
3. God is omnipresent; as such, all things are in God, including our known physical reality.
4. God is bigger than physical reality.
5. God is omnipotent; God has the power to create new, original knowledge.
6. God is omniscient; God knows how to create moreknowledge. God cannot create new, creative, untainted knowledge within Itself.
7. God is omnipresent; God cannot create outside Itself.
cck: 2 to 7 are all based on your first perceived truth: Reality Exists. You constructed your Reality solely based on your own first perceived truth.
[050310 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘… You constructed your Reality solely based on your own first perceived truth.’
To suggest reality exists only because I perceive it to be so is to deny your very existence and your very perceptions. How could I logically do so? Where does morality begin with such a concept?
[050310 djs] Regarding your comment: ‘ … Remove their foundation and the edifice you have constructed falls in on itself, and you are left with only the MInd.’
As you and I have discussed before, Reality refers to both the tangible and the intangible. To remove their (items 2 – 7 above) foundation (item 1 Reality exists – see above) does not leave one with only the Mind, to remove their foundation leaves one with simply ‘nothingess’ itself. To suggest all is ‘nothingness’ appears to be illogical for no logical argument can be made for ‘nothingness’ to exist in and of itself or if there is such a logical argument I have yet to come across it.
Perhaps you can enlighten me regarding the logic of such an argument.
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