070611 Reply to the Logician: Part III of IV
Djs: You totally misunderstand the model if this is what you conclude.
Logician: I don’t think I totally misunderstood anything. I may have misunderstood some of it.
Djs: Again you are correct.
Djs: The model clearly demonstrates that you “add” to the creator while at the same time demonstrating you create your own self and the soul is what you created and exists as your discrete self which adds to the whole, the creator.
Logician: So the creator gives a piece of itself, to you, and then you become, and what you become, becomes a piece of the creator again, and yourself, thus one becomes two, correct?
Djs: Religions claim one characteristic of God/the creator is knowing, consciousness. As such, if the individual has consciousness then the individual is of the same substance and essence as God since both have consciousness.
The individual, being given consciousness, in essence is ‘given’ a piece of God. Consciousness on its own, however, is simply a potentiality (God being capable of expanding upon Its own knowing has/is a form of, ‘potentiality’. It is acquiring consciousness of some form of experiencing which changes ‘potentiality’ into ‘substance’, a form of being as opposed to simply being potentiality.
If God is omnipresent then your knowing ‘adds’ to God’s knowing making God even more knowing, in short the process explains the means by which God avoids ‘eternal recurrence’ as Nietzsche would say. As such, the One remains the One
But what of the individual/you? Once your consciousness emerges your consciousness is composed of the same universal fabric as God’s consciousness, namely: timelessness. Thus your consciousness not only exists but exists timelessly, eternally.
The individual remains a discrete entity of consciousness, unique within the whole of consciousness. The individual is therefore like the raisin within the raisin bread. The raisin, the individual, remains the raisin yet gives the bread, God, a unique flavor.
Djs: Thus you not only are responsible for “creating” what it is your soul becomes but what it is your soul becomes immersed within, the environment within which your soul is to be immersed.
Logician: So I did understand.
Djs: Perhaps.
Djs: Wow, you really don’t understand do you. I have to confess I have an overwhelming sense of inadequacy.
Logician: It seems as if I do and I don’t, but do not have any sense of inadequacy, I think that you have become so focussed upon what you say and write that if anyone sees it from a different perspective then you berate yourself. Please don’t.
Logician: “Oh, and by the way, before you rush to the conclusion that I am an Atheist, you could not be further from the truth if you tried. I am a believer in a great many things, including all Gods.”
Djs: I not sure I know what that means for you, but OK. When I say the same thing I do know what that means. Perhaps you could enlighten me as to what you mean.
Logician: I can allow myself to believe everything and therefore choose all.
Djs: Isn’t believing everything the same as believing nothing?
Djs: I neither validated nor invalidated the creator’s ability to interfere. There is a tremendous amount that needs to be discussed here but for now let me simply state: If the creator constantly interfered then free will could not reasonable be called free will.
Logician: OK
Djs: I did not say the creator has “no understanding of time as we know it and live it.” I stated, time is not an element of the universal fabric of the creator.
Logician: Why do you draw this conclusion?
Djs: The metaphysical model of Reality, symbiotic panentheism, demonstrates the physical universe literally existing within God/the Whole of consciousness. Some individual entities travel within the physical where time and space compose the universal fabric.
As such the discrete entities, which have literally experienced time and space, carry their knowing of such an experience into the region beyond the physical, carry their conscious awareness of time and space into the Whole of consciousness/God which lies ‘outside’ the physical.
This experiencing then becomes incorporated into the Whole of consciousness/God and as such the Whole of consciousness/God gains new insights which in this case means God gains an understanding of space and time as we know it without having actually experienced it as The Whole, as God.
This is not to say God could not enter the physical and experience space and time personally. Such a position is one most Christians would say occurred through the being of Christ.
But this is another topic.
Djs: Symbiotic panentheism defines God as The Whole. Perhaps you would enlighten me as to how you would define what God is.
Logician: God, personal as it is, is an inadequate word to describe everything.
Djs: Are you suggesting God is beyond discussion and therefore you refuse to discuss the concept of God? If so isn’t such a stand a form of discretionary censorship based on one person’s fundamentalism, namely your personal decision to rationalize your unwillingness to discuss a particular topic which you find uncomfortable to discuss?
Some would describe this form of personal censorship as a form of ‘cop out’.
Djs: As stated previously, you misinterpret what I have said.
Logician: As stated previously, I probably do.
To be continued: Part IV of IV
Djs: I did consider putting the concepts out there anonymously. I decided if I was to throw ideas into the pool of human knowledge I should take responsibility for what it is I did. As such I reluctantly accept the responsibility and put my name to the work.
Logician: Kudos and respect...
